Where Angels Dare Not Tread: An interview with Ultra-Violent
When it comes to UK82 BANGERS, we can't get enough, and you know it's righteous stuff. Goes up like prices at Christmas. But it's a one-off release from 1983 that is one of the most intriguing of the era: Ultra-Violent's "Crime For Revenge" EP. Put out by the Riot City label, who were on the more hardcore side of UK82, while their friendly competitors at No Future focused on the Oi end, the Ultra-Violent EP is one of the records that helped solidify Riot City's reputation for premier thrash and bash.
With production handled by the master Colin Richardson (the deskman for GBH, Mayhem, Varukers, The Insane, Blitzkrieg, Carcass, Bolt Thrower, etc, etc), the EP shreds in a way few others from the UK were doing in 1983. It's abrasiveness was offset only by its catchiness. But it contains only three songs, leaving the listener starving for more.
As time went on, the band was elevated to cult status, with limited info known about the band. They seemed to be an enigma. Yes, vocalist Ade Bailey had gone on to front English Dogs on the brilliant "To The Ends of the Earth" 12" and "Forward Into Battle" LP. But beyond that, there was not much else.
We were elated to track down the other members of the band. It turns out bassist Duf and drummer Jaz were brothers. They were also in touch with guitarist Griff still as well. We asked them for an interview, and the band obliged, answering many mysteries in the process. The interview was done with replies from Ade Bailey and Simon (Duf) with additional input from Jaz.
These interviews were originally conducted in February and March of 2015 for an issue of Negative Insight intended to be paired with an official reissue of the Ultra-Violent 7". The planned reissue was going to include the still unreleased (and unheard) fourth song, entitled "Sign of the Times," from the recording session (as it is not included on the original 7"). The master tapes were located and we were lining up a studio to have them restored in, but the project never came to fruition. Maybe someday it will come together…
NI: With only one single released from a band you were in at such a young age, do you find it peculiar there's still so much interest in Ultra-Violent?
Ade: Yeah, I do. And the interest seems to be getting stronger. Especially in the states where the UK82 stuff is really big.
Simon: Frankly, yes. It was only when we were invited to play at the Rebellion Festival at the Winter Gardens in Blackpool a couple of years ago that we suddenly saw ourselves on the internet. Being invited to play the festival prompted us to meet for the first time in 30 years, and we seriously considered getting back together to play. We then noticed that there was so much stuff about us on the internet that we became aware that our single "Crime For Revenge" was rather sought after and considered a gem among punk aficionados.
NI: Do you think that only releasing one single has, in a way, helped the Ultra-Violent legacy because it's considered flawless and created a mystique for the band?
Ade: I agree, totally. I have heard people say that they actually thought that it wasn't really us, and it was members of different bands playing under an alias. I wouldn't say it was flawless though.
Simon: Undoubtedly. We were young, we were raw, we were living it – that's where its got to come from. The single was recorded at Cargo Studios in Rochdale and engineered by Colin Richardson. I recall that he had just had GBH in recording, I think recording "City Baby Attacked By Rats," and he probably had a good idea of how he wanted to mix the song. We were young, we didn't have a clue, but he had a vision and he picked up on the energy and nailed it. It's all down to the production and the ideas he had. For instance when we recorded the bass, I went direct into the desk and played the songs in the control room and this gave it a warm feel. I can't remember much more.
NI: How did the band come to be, and how old were the various members? What year did you form?
Ade: Myself and Griff (guitarist) were school buddies, and we were listening to stuff like The Ruts, Cockney Rejects, Angelic Upstarts, etc. and he bought a guitar and amp. We were 15/16, and we just used to mess about playing and singing along to said bands in this really old house he lived in. This was about 1979. When we decided we wanted to form a band, we recruited two brothers who we knew from school: Jared (drums) and Simon Duffy (bass). Simon was 14 and Jared was 13.
Simon: Jazz and I were playing together from when we were 11 or 12. Our dad bought a set of drums and a bass guitar and 'bang' that was it. We formed a band called Chaotic Infidels and then when Griff joined called ourselves Dreaded Cult. Our singer left and Griff knew of Adie and that was it. Adie had some great ideas, and I think he came up with the name. This would have been about 1981-82.
NI: Were the songs that you wrote at first as 'hardcore' as the EP material, or did that sound develop over time?
Simon: The sound was always hardcore, Jazz is that type of drummer!! And Adie's voice works at that intensity.
NI: Was there a demo before the EP? How many songs were on it?
Ade: We made a rough demo, but it was nothing special. We just recorded them on an old cassette player in our practise room.
Simon: Our first demo was recorded above a music shop in a town called Halifax. At the time, it was existing but on reflection I don't think the guy had any idea about production. Anyway we recorded the following songs: "Kill the Coppers," "1982," "Juvenile Delinquent" and "Look to the Future."
NI: How did you come to the attention of Riot City Records? Did they ask you to record a single right away?
Ade: Yeah, we copied that old cassette and sent it away to Riot City. I think we had the reply with the offer to do the record within a week. Of course we didn't have to think about it.
Simon: We sent this demo off to Riot City, and Simon Edwards wrote back saying good but not quite. It acted as a catalyst. He seemed to be saying you can do it just get better and have it decently produced. So we hunkered down practiced a lot, became very tight and wrote a lot of absolutely brilliant jump up and down songs. We used to practice at our dad's house in the attic decked out with carpets on the walls to stifle the noise, and the local punks would come and knock on the door so we'd let them in and they just used to sit on the landing outside the practice room. We were good but probably did not know how good at the time. That's when we went to Cargo in Rochdale. We sent off the songs to Simon, and I remember the letter that came back was something along the lines of "Brilliant, that's it, love the songs, we will release them." That's when we knew we had a record deal and of course we were elated. I would have been 14 and Jazz 13. Griff and Adie were the oldest probably about 18-19 at the time.
Riot City clearance sale with copies of "Crime For Revenge" for 50p!!! These lists were printed on the paper sleeves of later Riot City LP releases. Shoulda stocked up.
NI: What were your thoughts on being on Riot City, a label that had a good reputation and a bigger profile than others?
Simon: It was a step up, it was almost like we knew we'd get there so yes we were all absolutely elated. But I remember going out with my mates to celebrate that night. All the other guys did the same thing but we didn't usually drink together because we all had a different set of mates. We all met at my dad's, practiced, ate together so our common ground was at my dad's house the rest of the time we moved in our own circles.
NI: Were there any other labels that you sent the demo to or that offered you a release? What about spots on compilations (Pax, No Future, Rot, etc.)?
Ade: We sent it out to No Future, but they took ages to reply so by the time they had we had already signed to Riot City.
Simon: After the first comments from Simon Edwards there was only one place for us to send our music–Riot City. It felt like he was already on our side.
NI: Did No Future make an offer to release the EP when they did eventually reply?
Ade: No Future offered us a split EP with another band. They never told us who. But we had already signed to Riot City, so we wrote back to them and told them we didn't want it.
NI: The "Crime For Revenge" EP is harder and faster sounding than just about anything that was coming out in Britain at the time. What bands influenced your sound? Did you realize how different your style was compared to the rest of the UK82 wave?
Ade: We had been out to see Cockney Rejects, UK Subs and Angelic Upstarts at the time. It was hard to get in anywhere as we were so young. And then along came Discharge, and that sort of upped the ante really. I think we just speeded things up. I liked the Cal style vocals better, so we got stuck in between. We honestly didn't think it was any different, but it seems to have stood the test of time so we must of got something right.
Simon: Yes, I felt that a lot of the music we listened to sounded 'tinny.' No bottom end with the bass sounding hollow and the drums, especially the snare too prominent. At the time I didn't realise how different our sound was, but I remember us never being over awed by other bands and always holding our own when we played gigs. In fact when we supported the UK Subs, Charlie Harper told Adie that he wished he had written "Where Angels Dare Not Tread," so we were up there with the best of them.
NI: Can you talk about the cover photo, the crime that was being committed, and who was in the photo? What was it revenge for?
Ade: It was supposed to be "Revenge Against Society" at the time. We were living in Thatcher's Britain and felt like they were trying to destroy people like us. That is ultimately what the song "Crime For Revenge" is about. Against the establishment. The cover was basically someone breaking into the house of one if these people and getting revenge for how society was treating him.
Simon: Griff was the masked man in the photo. Revenge was on society, a society that was letting us down, not listening and crime was the only way to get back. My dad lived in a terrace house and just down the road was one which was uninhabitable without a window and this is where the picture was taken–down the street from my dad's house on Melbourne Street, Hebden Bridge.
NI: Who did the layout for the front and back cover, the band or Riot City?
Ade: We took the picture ourselves, it was Griff who did the "modelling". A friend of the band converted it into what it is, and we did the layout for the back ourselves. Riot City gave us total control of the design and were very happy when they received it all. Bearing in mind there was no internet then, it all had to be done by snail mail. They were on our case because they wanted to get it out as quick as possible.
Simon: Adie came up with the Ultra-Violent logo, and I think it must have been Simon Edward's team who came up with the red cover. I could be wrong because we had the single cover planned out and this went off with the tapes to Riot City.
NI: Were you pleased with how the EP came out? How were the reviews at the time?
Ade: You know what, we didn't really care about reviews as such. We were getting a great live following, so that told us everything we wanted to know.
Simon: We were very pleased with both the record and the cover. We had a number of our own pressings so we each gave away a few and kept one for ourselves.
NI: Any idea how many copies it sold or if it charted on the Independent Chart?
Ade: Got absolutely no idea how many it sold as we were never told. It did get in the Independent Chart for a couple of weeks, but we just thought that everything from Riot City, No Future and Clay did anyway. But it was still good to see.
Simon: At the time there was a Punk chart in the music magazine Sounds, and I remember we were about Number 26 in those charts.
NI: Being so young at the time, did your parents have any thoughts or objections to the band? Did having a record out on a legitimate label give you credibility in their eyes?
Ade: All our parents were great about it to be honest. We were spending all our time and energy on it. So they didn't have spotty, moody teenagers under their feet. I have got to say that the brothers' dad was amazing. We used his house every weekend to practise. He supplied us with meals, beds and would also drive us to every gig. R.I.P. Colin Duffy. It did give us a bit of credibility with them because they just saw it as us having a hobby. Once we started gigging and recording, they seemed to respect it a lot more even though they thought it was just a racket.
Simon: Like all parents they wanted us to get an education and a good job. But at the same time they were happy for us to get it out of our systems. My dad acted as rodie, driver and advisor. He sold his car and bought a van and took us and our equipment to every gig. He looked after us, gauged the mood of the crowd and let us know the gen.
NI: There's long been rumors of a fourth song from the recording session of the EP? Is there an additional song, and if so, what was it named and why was it left off the record?
Ade: We sent Riot City four tracks, but they only ever wanted to put three out. They wanted a clear A side, and that was always going to be "Revenge". They then chose two out of the three. The track left off was "Sign Of The Times".
NI: Were there any other studio sessions done by the band that never came out?
Ade: There was never any studio recordings as such, but we always put stuff down on cassette just for us to listen to at home and practise them.
Simon: Yes, the session in Halifax.
NI: After the EP came out, did the band continue to write more songs? How many more do you think were written after "Crime For Revenge" was released, and what was the style of these compared to the EP? Do rehearsal recordings exist of any of those?
Ade: Yeah, I reckon we had another 10 songs that were all part of our live set. The ones I can remember are "You Make The Rules," "Juvenile Delinquent," "Mad Axe Man," "Survivors" and "1982." These were all the same style apart from the song called "Survivors" which was about six minutes long, and it was quite eerie along the same lines as "It Was Cold" by The Ruts. We just had rehearsal recordings of these in cassette, but unfortunately these were accidently lost when Colin Duffy died and his house was cleared out. Shame really because they were cracking songs.
Simon: We changed style but it was still punk and hardcore but it was more refined. We had a song called "Survivors," which would have been epic if it had been recorded. It was about the aftermath of a nuclear war. We also introduced a new female singer so on some songs Adie and Wendy sang together. We had developed a new full set and were busy rehearsing ready to gig when Griff delivered a bombshell about musical differences.
NI: Did any other labels contact you for further releases after "Crime For Revenge"? Was another release on Riot City ever discussed?
Ade: No one else contacted us because Riot City wanted to do another. We had the songs ready to record, but unfortunately the split happened and they never saw the light if day.
Simon: No, not that I know of. But I understand that "Dead Generation" has been released a few American speed metal albums one I think was simply called "Hardcore"?
NI: For that planned second release on Riot City, do you remember if it was another 7" or something else? Were the songs that you'd written in the same vein as the first EP?
Ade: It was going to be another three track EP. They offered it, but it never got signed for due to the split. We had agreed that "The Mad Axe Man" was going to be the main track. It was a beast of a song, three minutes of searing punk rock.
NI: Did you play a lot of gigs, and what were some of the bands you played with? Who were the best bands you played with or most memorable shows?
Ade: Yeah, for sure we had a great time live. We played with the Subs, Abrasive Wheels, English Dogs and many more, but some of our earlier, more local gigs stand out for me. We had an insane following who came to all our gigs. We played in northern towns like Rochdale and Burnley, really working class places, and at the time, we were bang on live. The most memorable was when we played at Manchester Gallery with the UK Subs. Our drummer, Jared, was only 14 at the time, but he still looked even younger. The management wouldn't let him in because they didn't believe he could be in the band. We thought we would have to pull the gig. Eventually Sir Charlie Harper intervened and said if we didn't play then neither would they. They didn't actually believe it till we sound checked. They followed him all night to make sure he wasn't drinking. But we did the gig and went down a storm.
Simon: We played a reasonable amount of gigs. We were tight and everyone knew their jobs so we were all confident of our ability. We took it in turns to support the English Dogs. They would come up to Halifax, and we would play down in Grantham. We supported the Abrasive Wheels, The Defects and The UK Subs. But I think the gigs that stuck in my mind were playing at the Trades Club in Hebden Bridge, our home town in Yorkshire. It was always great to play on home soil. I also enjoyed supporting the Subs and English Dogs. We had a lot of people getting up to pogo, and this is always the measure of whether you are going down well with an audience. I'll never forget we played a song called "Night of the Vampire" in our support slot with the English Dogs and the strobes went on and Adie just pulled everyone up and got the crowd all linking arms and dancing in circles. I think that night he could have made them do anything.
NI: How long did the Ultra-Violent exist for? What led to the break up of the band? Any regrets or things you wish you could have accomplished?
Ade: All in all we lasted about four years and they were a great four years. I think the others started trying to run before they could walk. I turned up for practise one day and was given the news that they wanted to start using keyboards. Now I have nothing against keyboards, but it just wouldn't have worked with our music. We had a big argument over it, and I refused to give in. Why would I? We were ready to record another record and we were fucking roasting live, so I walked and told them it was me or the keyboards. Strangely enough the keyboards won. Regrets? Erm, yes and no. Yes because we were just starting to get bigger and better gigs and had a growing reputation and also that all them songs just went to waste. No because less than a month later I had moved on to something else.
Simon: The breakup was due to musical differences between Griff and rest of us. He wanted to basically give up because he never played in another band. I remember that we decided to do a farewell gig, possibly at the Trades Club but after a few practices the tension was too much and it all fell apart. I regret the fact that we had some very good music that was fast, full of energy and interesting; we also had some slow thought provoking stuff and we never got to record any of it.
NI: When the other members wanted to infuse synths into the sound and stuff, was it like what Blitz was doing on "New Age" or more like the Eurythmics and Human League type stuff?
Ade: It wasn't all the other members. It was just one of them. I don't really know why he wanted to do it, but yes, he was heavily into Blitz at that time so maybe it was.
NI: Did the other guys continue writing material with the synths for a while? Did they ever record anything?
Ade: As far as I am aware, they didn't even carry on with it. They just went their separate ways.
NI: Besides yourself, did the other members of Ultra-Violent go on to be in any other bands or stay involved with punk?
Ade: I think Jared went on to drum for another local band and release a couple of records. Not sure about the other two.
Simon: Adie joined the English Dogs. I don't know what Griff did I think he moved to Manchester when his girlfriend went to University and he became a DJ. Jazz went on to University and formed the group Mad Carson; Duff went to University and formed the band Sure and now writes and produces his own stuff under the name Lost Nobility.
NI: After Ultra-Violent, you went on to sing for English Dogs during the mid-late '80s and again now. How did you end up in English Dogs? Were they familiar with you from Ultra-Violent?
Ade: When I wasn't playing with Ultra-Violent, I would travel all over Britain to see bands and saw the English Dogs a few times and got to know them, travelled with them on a few occasions. They played a local gig in their home town of Grantham and asked us to open for them. It was a great gig with a great crowd and I wanted more. I think a couple of weeks later they went to Germany with GBH. I heard about Wakey leaving the band but didn't think anything of it. I assumed they would just get someone else. A couple of weeks later after I had left Ultra-Violent, I saw an ad in a music paper saying English Dogs were wanting to do auditions for a new singer. As I already knew them, I rung the number and spoke to their drummer and told him who I was and I wanted to come for a rehearsal. He didn't sound too keen and said he thought they had got somebody. I was gutted. A few days later, a friend of mine ran into them at a gig and told him that they hadn't realised it was me and would I contact them again (this was all before mobile phones). I did and went for a rehearsal and got the job, and the rest is history.
NI: Final words or anything else to add?
Simon: Talk of reforming in the air!!!???
An official reissue of the Ultra-Violent EP is currently available from the great Static Shock Records in London. It sounds great, comes with tons of info, and is highly recommended. For those in Europe, it can be ordered at http://www.staticshockrecords.limitedrun.com.
For US and North American customers, we have copies available directly from our distro shop, Social Napalm. They can be purchased at our webstore here: http://www.socialnapalm.com.
Credits:
Live photos from the personal archives of Ade Bailey.
Ultra-Violent "Crime For Revenge" EP pressing on Riot City from the collection of Negative Insight staff.
Original Ultra-Violent promo poster by Riot City from the collection of lifer Skell from Distort Reality Records.
